Dogs and Cigars

Photo: Mary

I’m back to inviting readers to submit quotations whose origins they want me to try to trace, using my book, The Yale Book of Quotations, and my more recent researches.

Sarah C. asked:

“When and where did the term ‘doggie bag’ (as in bringing home leftovers from a restaurant) originate?”

It is fascinating that you ask this, since I have long used “doggie bag” as my example of how historical dictionaries like the Oxford English Dictionary can shed light on the history of things as well as the history of words. The OED cites the following as its first two illustrations of “doggie bag” and related terminology:

“It’s a pleasure to hand this beautiful Doggie Pak to your patrons To Take Home Bones For Their dog… Printed in three colors… It’s class.”
-American Restaurant, Sept. 1952

“More and more restaurant meals are going to the dogs, if stepped-up demand for the ‘Doggy Bag’ is any indication.”
Huronite & Daily Plainsman (Huron, South Dakota), July 7, 1957

Jason Kernan asked:

“I’ve always wondered where “close but no cigar” came from.”

“Close, but no cigar” is widely used to signal a near miss. The earliest instance of its use anyone has found is in the 1935 film Annie Oakley, which has the line “Close, Colonel, but no cigar!”

Why a cigar? The reference appears to be to a carnival game of strength (the “Highball” or “Hi-Striker”) in which the contestant hits a lever with a sledgehammer to try to drive a weight high enough up a column to ring a bell at the top. The standard reward for ringing the bell is a cigar.

Do any readers have any other phrases or quotations whose origins they would like me to attempt to trace?

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COMMENTS: 23


  1. James Smith says:

    I remember a quote but not who said it: “When art has a message it is no longer art but propaganda.”

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  2. Matt H. says:

    I’ve got one…”hedge your bets”?

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  3. Rob Jones says:

    What about “Happy as Larry” – who is Larry and why is he do bloody happy?!

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  4. Eric M. Jones. says:

    The National geographic magazine: Volume 57

    books.google.com
    National Geographic Society (U.S.) – 1930 –
    They replied, making smoke at the same time and, as at Empress Augusta Bay, their salvos fell in patterns so tight they could be covered with a blanket, always close but no cigar, though on Claxton’s bridge the officers sloshed around …

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    • Fred Shapiro says:

      Eric,

      You do love those misdated Google Books hits. This one appears to date from World War II or later (there is an article about the battle of Guadalcanal in the volume), not from 1930.

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      • Eric M. Jones. says:

        I think you are wrong this time Fred. Volume 57 was 1930. I wasn’t depending on the date. There are others who have found this:

        https://idiomation.wordpress.com/tag/pretzels-pezzullo/

        I think the Guadalcanal article was not the battle, but something else.

        I think this need to be rechecked. There does not appear to be a digitized version of this.

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      • Garson O'Toole says:

        The Google Books database is an extraordinarily valuable resource, but it can be confusing because it contains many incorrectly dated items. The match in the supposed 1930 issue of National Geographic Society is an example of a confusing item. When I found it several months ago I concluded that the date was incorrect.

        One way to perform a cross-check on items in Google Books is based on a strategy of searching for other years and months in the target volume. For example, if one searches for “January” in the National Geographic volume that contains the phrase “close but no cigar” one discovers a matching snippet that says “he saluted on the quarter-deck of Montpelier on January 23, 1943, and accepted command of four cruisers”.

        This snippet match is very strong evidence that the date given by Google Books is incorrect. Future dates (with respect to the date of publication) do appear in books. But they are typically attached to future anticipated events. Also future dates appear in fictional accounts set in the future, but the National Geographic match does not seem to fit either of these possibilities.

        The National Geographic article snippet with “close but no cigar” also has the phrase “as at Empress Augusta Bay.” Wikipedia has an entry for the Battle of Empress Augusta Bay which occurred in 1943. Claxton was a participant. This is more suggestive evidence that the date is incorrect.

        Yet, I do think that antedating 1935 for the phrase “close but no cigar” is possible and will post a different candidate in a separate message.

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  5. Seth says:

    I have a small complaint on terminology. I believe ‘origin’ may used too loosely here, when it really means ‘first known recorded instance’.

    Given that language is an emergent phenomenon, my guess is that many of these phrases had reached relatively common usage in the spoken language before they were recorded.

    ‘Origin’ gives the impression that the phrase derived from the cited instances rather than emerging in the vernacular before being recorded on some media.

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  6. Tyler says:

    I have one for you. To “shoot the breeze.” I never understood how this could mean idle talk. Any clues?

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  7. Bart says:

    “Tighter than Dick’s hatband!” I use this all of the time as I learned it from my childhood mentor, my uncle Bill, in reference to many thing – making sure bolts are tightened; mayonnaise jar lids that won’t budge; bearings that are frozen to the shaft; good, solid information; etc…

    And now my son wants to know where it comes from.

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  8. Ross says:

    Prior to the late 1950s, most people fed their dogs table scraps, so “doggie bags” really were restaurant leftovers intended for the dog. The term stuck long after most people began feeding their pets commercial pet food and keeping the leftovers for themselves.

    I wonder how many years the phrases “got it on film” and “got it on tape” will outlast their respective physical media?

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  9. Garson O'Toole says:

    Here is a candidate for antedating the 1935 citation for “close but no cigar.” The Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper has an article about a bowling match in which the phrase appeared in 1930:

    Cite: 1930 March 6, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Jake and Lena Stride to Line in A.B.C. Today [A.B.C American Bowling Congress], Page 24, Column 6, Cleveland, Ohio. (GenealogyBank)

    Yesterday’s chromium-plated soup spoon for consistency was captured by Peters on Alley 3 when he toppled the maples for 120, 100 and 100. Scott was right behind him with 113, 115 and 117. Close-but no cigar.

    The phrase “right behind him” reinforces the evidence that “close-but no cigar” is being used with a sense comparable to its modern meaning. Yet, the scores are odd. Perhaps the commentator was saying that Peters was more consistent than Scott because Peters bowled exactly 100 twice in a row.

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  10. Groatman says:

    What is the saying that says something like “balance your accounts and if you’re groat over, happiness, and if you’re a groat under, misery” and who said it and when and where?

    I believe Ben Franklin’s Poor Richard’s Almanac had a later similar version of this aphorism, but, if I remember correctly, he substituted a “penny” and didn’t use the word “groat”. What was it he said exactly?

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  11. Aaron smith says:

    Where does the expression “sand bagging it” come from?

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    • Morris says:

      refers to a practice of a horse racer weigh down his horse with bags of sand, so as to make it appear less fast, and induce others to race against him for money.

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  12. Fred Shapiro says:

    I realize that it was not accurate for me to say that no one has found “close but no cigar” earlier than 1935. A book of which I am a coauthor, the forthcoming Dictionary of Modern Proverbs, found a 1934 citation. Great work by Garson finding it in 1930. I am sure the expression was around in the 1920s or even earlier.

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    • Garson O'Toole says:

      Thanks Fred. I’ve seen a few of the entries from the forthcoming Dictionary of Modern Proverbs and they were fantastic. DMP is going to be a magnificent advance in the field, and I greatly look forward to obtaining it when it is released. Congratulations to you, Charles Doyle, and Wolfgang Mieder.

      I also hope that it will be available in a searchable e-book format or as a widely licensed database available through libraries. And YBQ too. Admittedly, this issue may be beyond your control.

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    • How about 1880? says:

      The March 10, 1880 issue of Puck (Vol. 7, No. 157, page 21) under the heading “Definitive Snaps” has the following witticism: “Gambetta’s Motto—Vox et praeterea no cigar.”

      This is a play on the Latin expression “vox et praeterea nihil” which literally means “a voice and then follows nothing [else].” The phrase was used to imply that words were spoken, or a speech given, but they were to no effect and just empty verbiage. The Gambetta referred to was the rather eloquent Léon Gambetta, who at the time was in a controlling position in the French government as President of the French Chamber of Deputies.

      As written in Puck, the expression would appear to be a crack at Gambetta, implying that though he was having a good try at giving speeches, he wasn’t getting anywhere in moving along governmental affairs. This would appear to be a precursor to “close, but no cigar.”

      [Some sniveler out there will say that you must also take into consideration the fact cited by the reviewer of Gabriel Hanotaux's Histoire de la France contemporaine, in the Athenaeum of December 5, 1908 (No. 4232, page 719), who points out that during 1880, Gambetta "continued to complain of a cough," and therefore might have been refraining from smoking, especially after a long oration. But, come now, really?]

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      • What's Economics Got To Do With It? says:

        Someone may ask what “close, but no cigar” has to do with economics. Lest they think that this dogged search for obscure quotations is irrelevant to economic discussion, we should pause and provide the socio-economic history behind this phrase. Why does it appear in common usage in the early to mid-1930’s? To understand that you have to go back to the end of the First World War, and Vice President Thomas Marshall’s challenge for the tobacco industry to come up with a good five-cent cigar. During the twenties, firms started mechanizing the production of cigars, but it wasn’t until the coming of the Great Depression that small time handmade cigar manufacturers really got pushed out. Yet, even despite big firms campaigns against “spit” cigars, many consumers felt the newer machine made cigars were not really of the same quality as those made by hand—the really fine cigars. Even today, handmade Havana cigars retain a high prestige. Little wonder that when handed one of the newer machine made products, one would say, “Hmmm—close, but no cigar!”

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  13. Zoha says:

    I heard this dialogue in Indepedence Day
    “It’s not over until the fat lady sings” i think is’s origns relate to maybe Opera singing, but if it is isn’t this stereotyping?

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  14. Jen Song says:

    “…till the last dog is shot/hung.” What’s up with these poor canines dying?

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  15. Bob Dahl says:

    Hi Fred,

    I recently saw this quote attributed to Benito Mussolini. “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.”

    When I did a search for it on the Internet one link that came up is for Political Research Associates
    http://www.publiceye.org/fascist/corporatism.html and they are unable to verify the quote.

    Can you “shed any light” on this?

    Thanks

    Bob

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  16. Andreas Moser says:

    Another cigar quote from Thomas Mann (“The Magic Mountain”): “I never can understand how anyone can not smoke—it deprives a man of the best part of life … with a good cigar in his mouth a man is perfectly safe, nothing can touch him—literally.”
    I love cigars: http://andreasmoser.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/smoking-cigars/

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